Imajackson just left a great comment on my post Older, better educated workers are toast (and probably so is America). She said:
Ok ladies:
WHAT’S THE ANSWER? I mean this honestly…if so many of us are experiencing the job losses of well educated spouses- what is the response? Do we start to work ourselves? Do we start our own businesses as a family? Do we aim for more self sufficiency?
So many of you have gone through this and I am looking closer to 40 then I want to admit. What could I do NOW to ease the inevitable job loss due to age? If you could go back what would you have changed? I really would like to know!
Sallie- do you think you might want to do a whole blog post just about this? I think it would be very helpful and VERY popular.
Looking forward to hearing some good advice ladies!
If you haven’t read the post and other comments, please do so before responding.
It is a great question and I’m glad she asked it. What kind of Biblical counsel would you give someone asking these questions? How would you answer her questions?
I don’t think there is an easy answer, not with the whole country heading toward the cliff.
For the shorter term, it might pay to be aware of your state’s application process for unemployment benefits, and for other benefits like food stamps and medical assistance. Find out where the food shelves in your area are, and so on. Middle-class people usually don’t have much experience navigating the social benefits system.
It would also be better to have multiple sources of income, either jobs or small side businesses, to lessen the devastation of a job loss (or business failure).
Peggy, that was a very good response. Thank you! I agree there are few short answers (or easy ones) but I still think if many women respond about their experiences we could really gain a host of helpful ideas. I am just about to make my 2nd batch of soap and I am starting to wonder what I could do to bring in more $ on the side.
All you other ladies- let’s hear it! I really want to know what you think about how to prepare for a major job loss due to age.
A man in our church working in a highly technical field was laid off, and spent more than a year looking for work. They had paid their house off early, so they were able to get by on his wife’s part-time income. Looking back, he said it was a valuable break for him. He did find another job.
I came out of graduate school into a recession, worked at a seasonal camp position for the summer, and then as a temp at a printing company. They permanently used temps for some of the work, and since the temp agency would send them basically anyone who walked in the door breathing, there was a lot of turnover (company asking that specific temp workers not be sent there again). Lots of turnover means opportunities to get in. They didn’t actually treat the temps that badly, except for a two-week-on, two-week-off work cycle because of their production schedule. The better temps ended up more or less full-time, and a couple were actually hired, so I ended up working basically full time. No great pay or benefits, but enough to live frugally on, until I figured out where I was going next.
I enjoyed this more manual labor after being stuck at a computer in a basement office for five years. Later, I came to look back on that year as a sort of sabbatical year, as I think the guy in my church also did for his case. I certainly did a lot of praying and thinking about vocation and callings and where to go next. That year, I actually laid a lot of the groundwork for the next few years, though I didn’t know it at the time.
Sorry it has taken me a few days to even respond myself. I’m going to throw out a few thoughts that I don’t have time to develop (have to make supper!), but that might help the conversation get going.
I think when you are successful in your vocation, it is easy to coast. Networking is incredibly important when you lose your job, but I suspect many people don’t network when they are comfortable in their job. David always assumed he would be a lifer at Meijer (until he met me and I put ideas in his head!). So it was easy for him to just kind of do his job and coast. He had no real professional network outside of Meijer when he was downsized out. If you ask David about our business, he will say most of the success we have is due to my contacts. This has been one of the fringe benefits of my having lots of different jobs over the years, being involved in all different kinds of groups, etc. I’ve met a lot of people. Having a professional network in place is really important.
I think another issue that would make for an interesting part of this discussion is the whole idea being floated out there that women don’t need a college degree because God will provide through their husband and they should be focusing on being a homemaker/wife/mother/grandmother. To pursue an education and/or career before having a husband and/or children is seen as not trusting God. So women who follow this line of thinking don’t have something to fall back on if their husband loses his job. (Or, worse yet, if he dies.)
I think people should reflect on how they would handle it if they lost everything. Of course no one can really know how they would respond until they were in that situation. But thinking about it ahead of time has benefits. It is beyond tragic that people who fail in business kill themselves (like the man who owned the fishing company down south that has been ruined by the oil spill). It’s only money and stuff. If you still have your loved ones, your intelligence and your health, you can start again. No, it may not be the life you imagined and it may not lead to the sunset years you anticipated. But life is so much more than a job or a business.
I do think it can be incredibly beneficial to have a sideline. David and I have talked about whether one of us should get additional training in something that can’t be outsourced overseas. At this point we aren’t pursuing that, but we do talk about the possibility.
If I had a child who was a teen (especially a son), I would be seriously discussing with him the value of a hands-on vocation and a business degree.
One more thought and then I have to make supper!
Living beneath your means is an important way to make it through a job loss. Most people aspire to move up the ladder in terms of home and lifestyle as they move up the professional ladder. It takes real resolve to not ratchet up the lifestyle and expenses as you move up vocationally.
Our house and car wouldn’t impress anyone. We should have “better” given our education. But living at a lesser level allowed us (in part) to stay afloat during some very lean years in the not so distant past.
On the college thing for young women, Oh. My. Word. First a huge disclaimer, I think it’s ok if college isn’t your thing, whether a young man or woman. But to systematically discourage or bar your daughters from attending college is just plain wrong. Even if their goal is to have children and stay home with them, where do they think they are going to meet husbands that are going to have the income to allow for that? Uh, college happens to be a good place for that.
Anyway, off my soapbox on that thought!
As for the future, I think more and more of our spending as a nation is going to be on healthcare, especially as the population continues to age. I know I will be encouraging my son and daughter to go into medicine if they have the interest for it, whether as nurses, doctors, etc.
For the rest of us, I think the best thing to do is to think about contingency plans.
Ann,
I agree that college isn’t for everyone.
I was thinking about this topic this morning. Getting a college degree is the equivalent of a high school diploma a few generations ago. You couldn’t get anywhere in life if you didn’t graduate from high school. Now it is the same way with a college degree. How many parents would have told their daughters to not bother with graduating from high school a few generations ago? Isn’t it just about the same thing?
Sallie, I totally agree. It is really a basic, entry-level degree at this point. Again, you can be successful without it, in certain fields.
But for many fields, a college degree is now the equivalent of the old high school diploma. For example, I know around here, even for administrative assistants/secretaries positions, a college degree is preferred.
I agree about college with you all. I also see the wisdom is pursuing a more physical/vocation at this time. Plumbers still make good money as do (well, now, I can’t come up with an actual list…) Nurses still make good money as well as physician assistants. My husband is in a niche market for computers and things look good at this time. But I am not stupid and I know I shouldn’t get rid of my wood fireplace because at some point I might need to heat the house with it if the plug gets pulled on our income.
I still wonder about the idea about non-sourcable jobs. Someone still needs to pick up the trash and drive the buses and clean the hospital and assist the elderly. That isn’t changing this year. I am at a point in my life where I’ll do whatever it takes to feed my family. I know my fancy coffee beans could be replaced by cheap black tea next week if it was necessary. Or even water for that matter. So I am not foolish to think my cable and gym membership are rights.
It just seems to me we’re on a MUCH longer road then we previously thought. My neighbor tried to buy the bank repo next door. It took her hours upon hours over weeks and weeks to get a person to tell her if the bank would sell it to her at market value. Now, this lady is highly motivated and REALLY wanted to buy this house. Essentially the same price it was sold for 2 years ago. So this isn’t a fire sale. But the bank was blunt when it replied it’s plan was to hold the house empty for 5 years until the government stopped paying the TARP payments to cover the mortgage. Then the bank assumed it would be able to sell it for more since the whole area would be worth more.
I heard that today and thought…uhhh…I think this is all going to get much worse and maybe its time to get into a smaller house??? Although if we do we lose the spacious back yard with fruit trees and finished garden beds with so many food plants I have put in over the years. But I don’t want to get caught unawares if we lose our primary income. I already shop at Goodwill and make bread and soap and a lot of things like I that. I can foods and grow them and put in MANY hours volunteering and keeping my computer skills up with volunteer positions. It’s still so crazy though.
Maybe I should get a bike and a water well. Although I think that’s illegal in the city limits. Can you see how crazy this gets so quickly? Sheesh!
Ok, back to the subject: I liked the lady from the first post who stated it would be helpful to go find out the filing proceedure for benefits and food bank locations and all that now…before the catastrophy. Now I am going to find a play welders set for my son so I can steer him in a reasonable direction…that boy is going to have to make a LOT of money to pay off all those taxes he will have….
Imajackson,
VERY interesting story about your friend wanting to buy the house. I’m really surprised the bank even told her that.
So you’re actually looking for a discussion about the long-term demise of our country and way of life?
Um, yes. I have similar thoughts to the ones you have had. I don’t go there too often on AQSL because I’m not totally convinced how this is going to unfold and I don’t want to look like a loon. I’m still trying to figure out if we have deflation, inflation and/or hyperinflation ahead for the next year, five years and ten years. I’ve read convincing arguments for each one.
The problem is NO ONE knows what is going to happen. And that is part of what makes it so overwhelmingly confusing, scary, and/or depressing. We’ve never gone down this road before. Things are so manipulated right now by those in power in various sectors of the country that you can’t wrap your mind around how it will all work out because there is so much going on that we can’t even fathom. And I’m not talking conspiracy here. I’m talking about basic news regarding the way people in power are playing with trillions of dollars and moving things around in this country, skirting the law, etc. It is mind-boggling.
I have no idea how to prepare other than to pray and be right with the Lord. I’m not being flippant.
I said this on Brandy’s blog one day when she was discussing topics similar to this. If it gets to the point you are worried about having your own source of water apart from the city system, that will be the least of your worries. You will either already be dead from marauding gangs or you will have left the city for fear of your life. I’m not trying to freak anyone out, but if people are really concerned about the kind of situation where they have to depend on their gardens and so on to stay alive and they live in a city/suburb… You are already out of luck. If someone is concerned to that degree, they need to buy some land in Idaho and hide. Because that’s about the only chance you’ll have.
So I choose not to worry about the things I can’t control. If things go that bad, it won’t matter what I’ve done to prepare.
Now if you are talking about how to prepare for a long slow slide… We can talk about that too!
Here is something interesting to ponder:
When Trucks Stop, America Stops
Don’t read this just before bed.
Here is another helpful piece with some good action items:
Action List for the Newly Unemployed
It comes at it from a long-term perspective in that things are not going to be the way they were. Probably ever.
I think our model is other countries, that’s where we are headed. Things aren’t going back to the boom years.
Well, my reply last night was when I was really tired…so please forgive it’s rambling nature. I vassilate between TEOTWAWKI and taking things one day at a time. I truly am looking for a real conversation about what to do BEFORE you lose your primary income due to ageism (or any other reason frankly). I would love to know what these ladies did to get by and how they would have handled it differently now that are on the other side.
I don’t think we’re going back to house flipping for an easy 100K or disposable income for all. I do think we need a mind shift about things and a spiritual shift within our hearts. We younger ladies (well, ok, I am not so young anymore, ahem) need to know what to do when things fall apart. Many younger women have never known recession and still might not know how to navigate this sort of seismic shift in their lives. So, I want the nuts and bolts of these experiences so I can take action now- or perhaps pass on the information to another woman in the trenches.
As for any other thing you want to talk about (well, save basketball- wait, is that a deal breaker?) I would love to join in. I love this blog and I love the way your brain works Sallie.